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Monday, 14 February 2011

SOTR: The Tricolour and updates to blog business







As for now, my Restoration Series of blog post is on hiatus while I focus on the tumultuous events leading up to the potentially disasterous March Elections in the Republic.
In the meantime I will be posting up new twists in turns in Irish politics, the possible socio-political implications of them, and I will post my final thoughts on the election results and what it means for Ireland.

After which I will measure up the State of the Irish Republic in the 21st century and how it measures up to its Constitution, founding principles, and how said constitution and legislative changes measures up to the often Neglected Irish Proclamation of Independence and the goals it has set in achieving Ireland's status as equal in the 'great family of nations'

Also for those of you who read my previous post on the implications of the Labour party's potential in Irish politics may be eleviated in recent turns in the polls have suggested Fine Gael may form a ruling party with only a handful of independents in co-allition. A surprisingly conservative move given all things. However I will direct you to my fellow blogger Mac an Ri's post over at Scotic Monarchy, regarding fine gael and the implications of Irish men being ashamed of their Irish-ness.
I will adress this concern also in later posts as well as a thourough look at availible Nobility in Ireland and how they can be intgrated into an Irish High Kingdom as an Addendum to my Restoration series. You may be surprised at what I can show you, so interested individuals may wish to watch for such a post in the near future.

For this post I will however, focus on Ireland's flag.
It has much been discussed, even in Republican Ireland, that the nature of the Irish Tricolour ultimately does not represent the ideals of the Irish Republic to begin with. To the casual observer, IE the one who is blind to the symbolism of most flags, their would seem nothing wrong with the Irish Tricolour, afterall it represents 'Peace between Protestants and Catholics' with its colours, and has influenced similar meaning in the flags of India and the Ivory Coast. What could there be wrong with it?

Quite alot as any monarchist would tell you. Or even, any Republican worth his salt could tell you.

It is no secret the Irish Tricolour is inspired by the French Tricolour. It is supposed to, asides from peace between the dominent religions of the Island, represent the ideas of the French Revolution, Egalite, Fraternite, Liberte. These are Jacobin Ideas, and while I have ranted how republicanism is utterly alien to Irish culture and spirit. Jacobin Ideas are, or should be, Anathema, even poisonous to the Irish spirit. And frequently often are.

Who are the Jacobins you ask? The Jacobins where a group of frenchmen with radical ideas, much more radical then their contemporary Revolutionaries and are famous for exacerbating the Revolution to its infamously bloody heights. In truth what the represented is a feotal and violent form of what has become a more mature and seductive monster: Secularism and with its twin, Totalitarianism. These were the Men who rabidly preached against Religion, tradition and culture, who burned down churches, hung priests, stripped paris of its Monarchical glory and even went so far as attempting to rename days, months, restandardise years, hours of the day, calenders street names, areas, signposts. In otherwords utterly revolutionize every aspect of France, even going so far as to attempt to implement a state sponsored religion that was at once rejecting God and attempting to deify the state. All under the name of Egalite, Fraternite, Liberte.

It was these men who influenced the french tricolour and set in motion the horrors of the French Revolutionary wars and the subsequent Napoleonic wars. Barely corrected by the Treaty of Vienna. And this was the flag and values the Irish Government sought to emulate under Republicanism?

I can only assume there was an element of Ignorence in the Young and vigorously authoritarian Irish Republic. (Lets face facts, the Irish Government and Irish culture in general suited an Authoritarian regime, even a democratic one, it is just a pity it was the stale Republican model, filled with ugliness) For any student of History will tell you the Catholic Church in Ireland was the State Religion in everything but name. Literally. It was nerly stated as so in the Constitution and the same Constitution still gives special place to the Catholic Church as the Religion of the Majority today. This alone puts the Nature of the Irish Republic at extreme odds with Jacobin Ideals for obvious reason. However, this is most likely the reason why His Holiness Pope Pius XII refused to Bless the Irish Constitution.

As well as this, and something which is pointed out in Scotic Monarchy, the Government also went out of its way to promote Irish speech and literature, a revised studying of Irish history and rigorous patronage of Irish sporting culture (which thankfully remains strong and which intrinsically is an engine of Irish Nationalism and Pride in return while remaining Apolitical) and attempt to perserve elements of Irish culture which had been dieing. This smacks of Traditionalism, another aspect which the Jacobins reject. Nevermind the fact that the Irish Republic, although reluctantly, instituted the Council of CHiefs of the Name. An extremely sympathetic nod to monarchism and Traditionalism.

And Egalite speaks for itself. When has any revolutionary country been truly egalitarian without making things worse for everyone involved?

With this one must consider the Distinctly Medieval, or should I say fuedal nature of all other Irish Flags and Emblems. One need not look further then the traditional flags of the Irish Provinces, themselves representitive of great Irish Royal Dynasties, Unions and History. And are themselves radically different to the National Flag On all counts. The Traditional Ulster flag especially.
And this does not even touch upon the existence of Family crests, a distinctly medieval and traditionalist aspect of Irish Society, which every clan shares. Every single one. Nor the Existence of Lord Mayors. Not just mayors but Lord mayors. a hangover of British Occupation, but one which I have no qualsm with for the forseeable future. Even in the event of a Restoration, the existence of mayorships for towns and Cities being an elected office still sounds reasonable. ANd in my opinion thats were democracy should stay.
The only conclusion is this: The Irish flag, which itself is un-Irish in its inception, is un-Irish in its influence, it clashes with the rest of our culture and promotes an Alien Ideology, and a destructive cultural force that inspired it. It is irrepresentitive of its constitution of its current government and its people's culture and history. In fact its irrespective of the Soldiers of the original Oglah na hEireann and what the stood for (except for the Socialists). It has no affectionate nickname as other nations have for their flags, it is bland and uniform, and smacks of an Innate slave mentality and fear of Irish exceptionalism and Pride, it is anti-intuitive to progress for Irish society culture and politics. It cannot stay as the National flag should any restoration occur; primarily because it should not stay even under the current form of Government.

35 comments:

  1. However, this is most likely the reason why His Holiness Pope Pius XII refused to Bless the Irish Constitution.

    I think you mean Pius XI: "We do not approve, neither do we disapprove; we shall maintain silence".

    Pius XII was lot more positive.

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    1. six jewish communist families in Dublin stirred hatred and revolution and their kin in the north pulled all the strings within the masonic and orange lodges.The word republic sickens me and will never feel quite right.We as a people have lost the one thing worth the centuries of suffering,our love of Christ and the ability to endure and offer up our pain.Christian Monarchies have been torn to pieces by our greatest enemy and we dare not speak their name.

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  2. First off: My Apologies, Shane. Blogger automatically classified your post as spam, I have corrected this. I am sorry. Secondly, thank you for making me aware of this, I was under the distinct impression that His Holiness had not in fact blessed the Irish Constitution.

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  3. Someone had an Irish flag flying in the area I live in and everyone thought it was a Mexican flag that had been in the sun too long. I don't see the point of the symbolism anyway, I don't see that the 'Orange' have ever been reconciled or ever have any desire to. Personally, I prefer the Irish-American flag which is an older style; green with the harp of Erin on a bed of shamrocks with the motto (sometimes without). Just my preference.

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  4. The Harp flag was not only Irish American, It was tha Nationalist flag of choice for many centuries. The Tricolour only came to prominence during the War of Independence.
    When we look at various Irish brigades throughout the world the Harp is often displayed in some form.The Harp varies. The present day Leinster flag is green with a Brian Boru Harp. The Presidential flag is blue with a Brian Boru Harp.This harp is a symbol of the state and cannot be used by people without the permission of the State.
    I am not sure what the position of the sate is vis a vis other forms of the Harp. I think (but am not sure) Ryanair needed permission to use a harp for its company
    The Brian Boru harp has only been used by the State, it has no previous history.
    The tricolour was first used by the young Irelanders but it did have different variations. One was green blue and orange, green = Catholic, Blue = dissenters , Orange = Anglicans.
    As Green white and orange it also varied. Sometimes the reverse order of today's flag, Sometimes similar to the present Indian Flag.
    The tricolour is often confused with the Italian flag. It is not distictive enough. The only countires with similar coloured flags are India (some believe India copied our flag) and Ivory Coast(the reverse of our flag).
    The sunburst flag was originally a cultural flag but its use nowadays by republicans has tarnished it. It is an ancient symbol both for Ireland and the Gaels of Scotland.
    The Saltire of ST Patrick causes its own problems. Jersey has a similar flag and similar flags represent various states of the Confederate's in America.
    Am alternative to the Saltire is to use the flag of the Kilkenny Confederation which is a cross patee, It is red on a white background, although on some battle flags it was white on a green flag and the cross had a red circle around it.
    My preference is for a harp flag either on green or blue. A harp on blue has been the coat of arms for the Kingdom of Ireland since Henry VIII.
    Both green and the harp are acceptable to all groups in Ireland as representing all things Irish.

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    1. The green white and gold will always represent the Glasgow Irish and not just because of our football team.The orange will never be accepted,I imagine northern catholic emigrants to Glasgow consider they have been betrayed in a way.

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  5. MadMonarchist. I can appreciate how the Irish flag could be mistaken in your area. But my point being in this post is the symbolism of the flag is irreconcilable with the nature of the people it is supposed to represent and evoke feelings of national Pride. It fails both because it is at once bland, and hypocritical.

    The flag you described is indeed a beautiful one. Am I right in saying the Irish regiments on both sides of the American war of brothers flew said flag or variations of the same while in battle.

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  6. By the way the Ulster flag represents the Burkes as earls of Ulster , Yellow with Red Cross, and the O Neils as Kings of Ulster Red Hand. I believe the first to use the green harp flag was Owen Roe O Neill in 1642.

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    1. That is correct,the harp on the green field was owens battle flag.

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  7. You are correct, Father. Had to dig up your claim on Owen Roe O'Neill being the first to use the green harp flag, but it appears to be accurate.

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  8. Sorry I have just read your longer post, blogger on my end is acting confusingly. But I concede your analysis of Irish flags, in my preference should Ireland ever require an interim flag or should the current Tricolour ever need replacing as flag of state, the Brian Boru harp on a green or blue field would indeed be preferable, and recogniseable as representing all things Irish, it would certainly make our National flag distinct enough.

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  9. As a child of aNn Irish family of mixed religious heritage (Folan) I can firmly state the Orange never stood for Anglicanism,rather it stood for the Scotts Irish Presbyterians.Regardless of what it stood for, the tricolour can never be the flag of a re-united Ireland. It is too emotionally charged-pro and con.The one flag all Irishmen-and women-love is a flag with a harp. The four kingdoms flag is nice, but requires so much work we would exhaust the Chinese labour market to make it.Mark my words,the flag of Ireland will again be the harp-with or without a(native)crown.Lord O'Neil of Ireland anyone ? An O'Neil - and a Protestant...might work.

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  10. As an Irishman of mixed religious heritage, I can firmly state that the Orange in the present tricolour includes Anglicanism and in the tricolour of Green, Blue and Orange The Orange stands for Anglicanism and the Blue for dissenters/presbyterians.See G.A Hayes-McCoy book A History of Irish Flags from earliest times, Also the Dept of the Taoiseach Website. I do not know if you live in Ireland or not but orange is still associated with all Protestants and that includes the CoI Anglican Church. The Anglican Church in Ireland was untill recently a Low Church, It is only in the last 20-30 years that Anglo Catholicism has crept in . The CoI is the Majority Protestant Church on this Island
    Orange has always been identified with the Church of Ireland because it was the Established Church.Under William of Orange Presbyterians were persecuted because they were dissenters. Why do you think so many of them emigrated to the US and Canada long before the catholics did?It was not until the reign of George I and his toleration Act that the presbyterians got some relief.
    The main Churches used by the Orange Order for their Parades are CoI. Indeed the most infamous is Portadown ,The local Parish Church of the CoI.
    When the Tricolour came into being there was no such thing as a Scotts Irish prebyterian, this is a modern invention, there was Catholic Dissenter and Protestant (anglican).
    I do not think Lord O Neill would be good for Monarchy in Ireland .
    We are three choices: return to the House of Windsor, follow the Jacobite Line to the Archduke of Bavaria or go to one of the gaelic Royal families.The order of seniority: O Connor Don, The O Brien , O Neil of Claneboy, The O Neill of the Fews. The Father of the present The O Brien already refused a monarchial position when offered by Dev.

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    1. The chichester family are not the blood of the O'Neill's .The families of the O'Neill Mor Royals of Tyrone are scattered worldwide and could quite easily produce another Irish dynasty given the prophecy of the great Catholic Monarch due to come out of France in thirty odd years or so.

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    2. There are plenty of O'Neill Mor Royal lines that could and surely would take their rightful place given a return to our true monarchy.The Chichester family usurped the name and will never be considered O'Neill.Catholic Prophecy tells us to expect a great French King within thirty years or so.God alone knows our fate.

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  11. Whatever the merits of the idea itself, you would never get a majority to vote for restoring a monarchial house in this country. You wouldn't even get 5%. Almost everyone in the south is a republican, either formally or implicitly. Even the 'revisionists' (whose influence is declining anyway with the rise of 'post-nationalist' historians like Diarmaid Ferriter), while still scathing of traditional Irish Nationalism, would not support the idea. Traditionalist Catholics make up a tiny fraction of Ireland's population and I think it's safe to conclude that most of them are also republican (some fiercly so - like the Hibernian crowd). The most that will happen is Ireland rejoining the Commonwealth - of which the monarch is nominally head, but that position is not automatic and will likely go to a non-British (elected) head of state after Elizabeth II dies.

    For good or for ill, the idea is a non-starter at least IMO.

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    1. I would rather a protestant Monarchy than red liberalism any day but in saying that it's with the hope of a Catholic coming back to the throne.QE2 is at the mercy of the talmudic bankers as is the Vatican.The future looks bleak.

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  12. Shane never say never. Who would have thought in 1911 Ireland would be all but independent in 1921. Republicans were a very small minority, yet within ten years all had changed.

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    1. Surely for the worst Father,our women are lining up in abortion centres and the clergy have failed us miserably.

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    2. history is always much less predictable than it looks in hindsight, there are hundreds of events that even people who think they were a bad thing would say "of course that was going to happen" (and maybe say what they think should have been done to prevent it) when if you had talked to even people who wanted those events to happen a couple years before they did, those people might still call you nuts if you claimed that those events were definitely going to happen

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  13. Fr. Burke, I concur. One thing that I always see is how, when I tell people of my own Monarchism or Traditional beliefs, is that today’s world doesn’t work that way. They seem to forget that it once did and changed fast. Or worse, Realise it changed fast but don't seem to recognise a Similar Swift Transition can occur yet again, and move society away from today’s values.

    That said, I agree. The Harp Flag ought be the Irish National Flag, and the Tricolours is daft, and represents an evil Ideology.

    God Save Ireland and Restore her Throne, and her Faith.

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    1. Bravo brother.Europe and the rest of the world are about to go through massive change,do not be surprised to find it all changes back again after a terrible struggle.

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  14. on the topic of the flag i have four words for you:
    DESIGN A BETTER ONE
    if you can do that then it is worth looking into

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    1. Really? That's your response?

      Not going into detail on this but in terms of aesthetics its really easy to design a more interesting and, potentially, more symbolically pleasing flag then three bars of color.

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    2. not that i am mad, i just wanted to know what you had in mind, before getting rid of what you have it is good to have at least a vauge idea of what to replace if with, sorry if i made you mad Servent of the Cheif

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    3. nice conversation but i would like to say that in the end I consider the flags issue to be entirely separate from the monarchy vs republic debate
      Not all republics have flags that are tricolors, and some monarchies have flags that are
      If you do not believe me
      Input each of these spots on the internet
      Is this the flag of a republic?: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Flag_of_the_German_Empire.svg
      Is This one?: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Flag_of_the_Netherlands.svg
      How about this?: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Flag_of_Luxembourg.svg
      And this?: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Flag_of_Belgium.svg
      And even this? (Until 1917): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Flag_of_Russia.svg
      For a short period (18 years) a monarchy even had a flag that was this. (Although it has other uses that are far more famous): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Flag_of_France.svg

      Is this the flag of a monarchy?: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Flag_of_Switzerland_(Pantone).svg
      Is this?: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Flag_of_the_United_States.svg
      Is this?: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Flag_of_Iceland.svg
      Is this?: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Flag_of_Albania.svg
      Is this?: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=File:Flag_of_Most_Serene_Republic_of_Venice.svg&page=1
      Is this?: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Flag_of_San_Marino.svg
      One country that has switched back and fourth between a monarchy and a republic has during all those changes kept this.: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Flag_of_Greece.svg

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    4. i must add that this is a link to a thing that would not make a bad personal standard for the high king:
      http://smkd.deviantart.com/favourites/50358546?offset=72#/d4r714p

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    5. for some reason the link didnt show me the image directly.

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    6. did you mannage to see it eventauly?

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    7. You had better hurry or we will end up being forced to settle for a so called star of david or perhaps a crescent moon.

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  15. speaking of the provinces, did you know that they have adjective forms, i for example am "Connachtic", you are "Ulsterian" (based on what you said on where you lived,) people from dublin are "Leinsterian", and brian boru was "Munsterian" if midde (the lost fifth province) still existed people from it would be "Middeer" (pronounced midda-er)(with a long a), it shold be noted that there are no english languge adjective forms, those are in the irish languge, this was just a bit of trivia that might interist you

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    1. Aye I am aware of the Adjective forms. Although commonly people use terms such as 'Ulstermen' and such as they are unaware of the Adjective forms but still feel the need to distinguish.

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    2. by the way i want to restore midde (the lost province), as much of a non sequiter as that would seem, there are several reasons for this: 1 if we do it right we could get a far better distribution of land and people between provinces, 2 we would restore one of the largest things the british dismantled, 3 we would reduce leinster's numeric dominance, 4 it would solve the issue of autonomy for northern ireland more easily, 5 my design for a coat of arms for an irish high kingdom includes the arms of midde so that would make more sense, 6 the "ulster republic" (known to nationalists as free ulster and unionists as the lost counties) (the three ulster counties not part of the occupied north)would be removed from a no man's land in terms of provincial identity, 7 my province would get another county, and 8 it would symbolize the return of the high kings (who resided in midde, usauly)
      my proposel is that new midde include counties Meath, Westmeath, Louth, Longford, Cavan and Monaghan (this is aproximatly its own boundries minus a couple of dublin suberbs)for the same identity reason as well as for equitable distributions i stated before it would also transfer donegal to connacht,
      i am not the only one who is saying this mind you here is an article the adovcates this (i do not usuauly agree with the guy who is writing it but on this i do)(he is however advocating slightly different boundries mind you)
      http://sluggerotoole.com/2010/08/19/this-place-that-place-the-other-place-the-rest/
      (this reform can be made under the republic and transfored to a monarchy later) of course befor embarking on sutch a reorganization of our country we should have a refferendum on it what do you think of restoring our fifth province Servent of the Cheif? (anyone else with an opinion on this idea is enouraged to comment to)

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