tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7669776494971280696.post2819732255456679458..comments2023-07-29T11:25:16.066-07:00Comments on Irish Monarchist: Restoration I: Hibernie Rex. Imperator ScottorumServant of the Chiefhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17018786429076784275noreply@blogger.comBlogger51125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7669776494971280696.post-27772779772564797482021-07-20T14:28:27.468-07:002021-07-20T14:28:27.468-07:00do hope you return to this blog some day, i enjoye...do hope you return to this blog some day, i enjoyed reading it, and am still hoping for your input on my documentAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7669776494971280696.post-4790781090315759962019-10-15T10:05:15.655-07:002019-10-15T10:05:15.655-07:00great that you have seen it, take your time to go ...great that you have seen it, take your time to go over it, then I would love to hear your thoughts on it, and incorporate any revisions you think apropriateAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7669776494971280696.post-76625772657731203662019-09-11T09:50:21.761-07:002019-09-11T09:50:21.761-07:00here, see this link, feal free to recommend change...here, see this link, feal free to recommend changes of any type: <br /><br />https://docs.google.com/document/d/13gUWFSYFJjwng7NvT6ertSNKz8nDA6Dpx0xM-ivprrs/edit?usp=sharingAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7669776494971280696.post-34620384432756219872019-09-11T09:17:36.513-07:002019-09-11T09:17:36.513-07:00I actually came up with a first draft of what a bi...I actually came up with a first draft of what a bill for the purpose of legalistic restoration would look like, with blanks at certain spots for thing that I don't know your position on, and it is just a first draft, I might post a link to it in google docs here as a follow up soonAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7669776494971280696.post-78067376162164512872018-04-19T15:51:28.347-07:002018-04-19T15:51:28.347-07:00don't know if you will respond to this, but I...don't know if you will respond to this, but I, for my own amusement have started a draft of what a law for enacting such a change would look like, leaving the part where the new constitution proper would appear blank, an I might share the whole draft with you, but for now I have finished the long title, preamble (distinct from the preamble if any to the new constitution proper) and enacting clause, which read: <br /><br />An act to amend the constitution<br /><br /><br />Whereas ireland was as close to paradise as any place in europe in the middle ages every was <br /><br /><br />And Whereas this was acheived under the rule of high kings <br /><br /><br />And whereas the native monarchy of this nation was never actually rejected by the irish people <br /><br /><br />And whereas the high kingship and gaelic nobility were destroyed by the evil actions of a foreign power <br /><br /><br />And whereas the irish people have throught the centuries resisted the tyranny thus imposed on them <br /><br /><br />And whereas a free and independent state was at last established after much struggle <br /><br /><br />And whereas every free and independent people is entitled to establish the form of government best suited to them, <br /><br /><br />And whereas the irish people have at last resolved to restore that which was unjustly taken from them by a foreign empire <br /><br /><br />And whereas the decision of the people aforementioned has been made known and ought to be carried out<br /><br /><br />And whereas action by their representatives is necessary to accomplish this <br /><br /><br />And whereas the representativs of the people of ireland, who are in the oireachras assembled understand and accept the task of restoring the ancient gaelic order of ireland <br /><br /><br />And whereas it is expedient in such circumstances to make new provision for the government and supreme law of the state in consequence of what is aforesaid <br /><br /><br />And WHEREAS by virtue of Article 46 of the Constitution any provision of the Constitution may be amended in the manner provided by that Article<br /><br /><br />And Whereas is is proposed to amend the constitution into an entirely new document<br /><br /><br />BE IT THEREFORE ENACTED BY THE OIREACHTAS AS FOLLOWS:<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7669776494971280696.post-29084791899684065182016-06-06T20:23:21.585-07:002016-06-06T20:23:21.585-07:00as a continuation of my previous comment, I am wil...as a continuation of my previous comment, I am willing to provide research to help refine a gaelic monarchy's use of autochthonous nomenclature, anyone can just name anything that a monarchy would have and I will attempt to find the irish language word for it. this might take time but I am willing to do research on this, autochthonous nomenclature is likely a good way to help remove foreign connotations to the words used as well as being good policy in and of itself. I am volunteering to be an advisor and researcher on autochthonous nomenclature if you, servent of the chief are interested, I am happy to look up irish language words for any concept, you or any other irish monarchist forewards, I will leave the substance of any ideas alone, but I aim to help make the style more irish.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7669776494971280696.post-43615438292661121412016-05-13T09:32:34.559-07:002016-05-13T09:32:34.559-07:00another idea I have as to how a restored native mo...another idea I have as to how a restored native monarchy can embrace autochthonous nomenclature. this one is also a logical extension of something you have said you want to do, servant of the chief. your idea of using the expression "the throne" for a monarch his office, and subordinate ministers is good, and certainly better for Irish monarchism than the British expression "the crown" but I can offer a better idea lets use for that purpose "an Ríchathaoir" which means the same thing in Irish. this distances ourselves from the British monarchy as much as possible without altering the substance of anything, or deceiving people. taking a synonym and adding a linguistic variation to that means we are two steps removed from the system most Irish people hate (because they associate it with foreign domination). some might claim "Richathaoir" is an obscure word in Irish, that is true but so was "Taoiseach", until the Irish republic brought this word into the English language vocabulary of our country. it is now understood by most Irish people, even those who know very little Irish (the language). the English language media in our country even generally pronounces "taoiseach" right nowadays (the same cannot however always be said of foreign media in the English language). I image if a Gaelic monarchy were restored, the word "richathaoir" would become well known in English as decades pass. this type of thing was even anticipated by eamon de valera. there was a proposed amendment to our current constitution when it was being debated in Dáil Éireann as a draft that would have replaced "taoiseach" with "prime minister" in the English text, de valera spoke against it and it was voted down, he even said "the English language press will learn to pronounce this word over time as they encounter situations in which it is used" (the number of incorrect pronunciations of that word in English language media has in fact gone down over time, peaking right after the current constitution was written) (as a side note, I cannot be 100% certain on how to pronounce Richathaoir, as I myself have only ever encountered that word in written Irish, never in spoken Irish, although I can make a pretty good guess) Richathaoir is a word that Irish monarchists will likely have the capacity to control the connotation of. I cannot conceive of any regime besides a Gaelic monarchy using that word in English. One of the cool things about autochthonous nomenclature is that you get to have terminology that is both unique and descriptive. another thing I like about autochthonous nomenclature is that more countries doing it does not reduce the amount of unique results in produces (As every language is different) lately my mind has been racing with ideas about how a Gaelic monarchy could use autochthonous nomenclature, so I just wanted to express another one of those ideas. Any Irish monarchist is free to use any of these ideas on how a native monarchy could use un-translated Irish for proper nouns, whenever they want, and need not mention where they got them from. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7669776494971280696.post-78413916849277374342016-05-04T14:36:51.144-07:002016-05-04T14:36:51.144-07:00if you can't tell, I am a strong enthusiast of...if you can't tell, I am a strong enthusiast of autochthonous nomenclature. I am in favor of it in all cases. there is no case of autochthonous nomenclature that I would not significantly prefer, at least compared to a constitution containing the exact same substance but no autochthonous nomenclature. I am not just in favor of autochthonous nomenclature in Ireland. I love autochthonous nomenclature whenever any country does it. one of my ideas about how a gaelic monarchy could increase the amount of autochthonous nomenclature is that noble titles should be used in their Irish language forms. for example: if restoration was achieved tomorrow and than the current Ceann Comhairle was granted the title of prince, he would, be referred to in English as " Seán Ó Fearghaíl TD Flaith of South Kildare" (the Irish language version: " Seán Ó Fearghaíl TD Flaith na Theas Cill Dara" )(the actual person in the example is irrelevant, I decided to use a random public figure, and settled on the Ceann Comhairle) (the only part of the example that is truly relevant to the substance, is the use of "flaith" instead of "prince", everything else is included just to make the example more concrete) (the parts not constituting the substance could be used differently or not at all) (even the use of "flaith" is just an example, it was the noble title i could most easily find the irish language word for) in the above scenario Flaith would be used, even in English language legal documents. of course, this would not just apply to the title of flaith (prince) but all other titles of nobility would also be referred to by the Irish language words for them. If this practice was not the default in a Gaelic monarchy, it should at least be explicitly legal for a noble title to be used that way if the person holding the title wishes to. I would love to know what people think about this idea. this may even be something you have already thought of, but not yet brought up, servant of the chief. either way it just sounds right to do this as you already told me you would keep autochthonous nomenclature. I would like as many opinions as I can get on the principle I am illustrating here. <br />P.S. sorry this post and the above one are so long<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7669776494971280696.post-57631648356904289232016-04-28T12:17:58.636-07:002016-04-28T12:17:58.636-07:00I should add that the plot I'm on about is a d...I should add that the plot I'm on about is a different plot to the De Valera scheme mentioned above.KJnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7669776494971280696.post-77597864301696825542016-04-28T12:16:08.368-07:002016-04-28T12:16:08.368-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.Karlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16333013979246343381noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7669776494971280696.post-43611506836922969122016-04-27T05:11:04.047-07:002016-04-27T05:11:04.047-07:00I was in contact with Francis Stuart's biograp...I was in contact with Francis Stuart's biographer, Kevin Kiely, who has informed me that the figure involved in the plot mentioned was one Osmond Esmonde, a diplomat and Cumann na nGaedheal TD. He was also involved with an organisation called the Catholic Monarchy Association. I had a quick internet search but could find nothing on this group. If anyone has any further info on them, I'd love to hear about it.KJnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7669776494971280696.post-88107098932274221632016-04-26T13:15:47.533-07:002016-04-26T13:15:47.533-07:00I have heard that story too. (somewhat) the versio...I have heard that story too. (somewhat) the version I have heard is that is was the o'neil pretender to whom de Valera made the offer. I am more inclined to believe my version, as that version is more consistent with the general character of de Valera. he would never accept any British dynasty. in fact he proposed (in 1918) that if Ireland chose a monarchy after independence, the succession law would specifically provide that no member of the Windsor dynasty could ever become king. (I would actually be for an independent Irish monarchy having such a provision in the succession law, in order to protect the sovereignty of the Irish state) (this would not be unprecedented , the succession law for the throne of Belgium specifically excludes members of the house of orange and actually mentions that dynasty in those provisions, the heading to this section reads "savings to protect the sovereignty of Belgium") (Belgium declared independence from the Netherlands and orange is the reigning family of the Netherlands) so it would be highly inconsistent with de Valera to ever make an offer to a staurt. (the staurts are also a british dynasty, although you could make the case that they are german now) (but any claim a staurt would have to ireland would be exclusively through British royals, and thus a usurpation in my view) (and probably de Valera's view as well given that he wanted a "savings to protect the sovereignty of Ireland" provision) I do know that he thought highly of the gaelic nobility though. i am more inclined to believe specific stories that are consistent with the general tendencies I am already aware of. lots of stories without written documentation get passed on with distorted details. (i actauly think "Savings to protect the sovereignty of Ireland" clause is a good idea, and a gealic monarchy should have such a provision in its succession laws) (this would also help dispel the notion that irish monarchists are in favor of restoration of the british crown, if we go out of our way to bar british royals from the irish throne)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7669776494971280696.post-50846348536989442802016-04-26T11:30:31.893-07:002016-04-26T11:30:31.893-07:00Oh that. Yes that was the supposed moment when DeV...Oh that. Yes that was the supposed moment when DeVelera actually offered the throne of Ireland to the Stuart pretender currently residing in Germany at the time (Catholic) who turned the offer down. Unfortunately I have nothing other than anecdotal evidence about the matter and can't be of further help I'm afraid.Servant of the Chiefhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17018786429076784275noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7669776494971280696.post-87879832952146592762016-04-25T23:49:32.972-07:002016-04-25T23:49:32.972-07:00No, I'm aware of the plot you're referring...No, I'm aware of the plot you're referring to: Prince Joachim was the proposed candidate.<br /><br />The episode I'm referring to allegedly took place in the 1930s.KJnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7669776494971280696.post-81585463868693489662016-04-25T17:24:01.544-07:002016-04-25T17:24:01.544-07:00Yes this happened, it was a proposed plot/alliance...Yes this happened, it was a proposed plot/alliance between elements of the nationalist movement and the German empire, who'd agreed to back an Irish bid for full independence from the British empire secretly in the event of British involvement in a continental war. The even went so far as to commit several professional troops to aid Irish rebels and these troops DID land when the Rising happened, but because of poor communication and co-ordination, the small force landed after the rising was crushed and were captured by the British. It was a token effort and Germany would lose nothing from it, and likely backed it if it would distract Britain by fomenting revolt close to home and if it somehow succeeded, they'd then have a German-Friendly monarchy on the atlantic as a check on Britain in the future. The Germans had nothing to lose from it, as far fetched as it was.<br /><br />The prince was some German fellow, a protestant I believe who probably would've converted if he got the throne.Servant of the Chiefhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17018786429076784275noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7669776494971280696.post-48235321259151799132016-04-25T11:06:22.812-07:002016-04-25T11:06:22.812-07:00Hello, and thank you for your blog.
I have recen...Hello, and thank you for your blog. <br /><br />I have recently been reading the autobiography of the writer Francis Stuart 'Things to Live For' written in 1934. In one chapter he claims he was involved a plot to restore a Catholic Monarchy in the Free State and that it had the backing of a number of the clergy. They had also, apparently, picked out their proposed Monarch, who remains nameless in the account. I have been unable to find anything on this story elsewhere and was wondering if you had ever heard about it.<br /><br />Thank you.KJnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7669776494971280696.post-64311339643663298572016-04-22T20:32:41.365-07:002016-04-22T20:32:41.365-07:00good to hear, consider yourself to have one more s...good to hear, consider yourself to have one more supporter. securing a statement on this was my one reservation I had about saying I support you. the autochthonous nomenclature is so important to me that I feel that I can never support any change in government that will not make a commitment to that practice without feeling morally guilty of cultural treason. one thing that I love about autochthonous nomenclature is that is by definition, very radical from an outside perspective yet very traditional from a local perspective. that is why foreign empires are completely terrified of this practice and nationalist movements embrace it wholly. this practice declares very openly that a country has a government run by people who are proud of their own culture (or at the very least, implicitly recognize that that would be a good thing, by virtue of acting like they feel that way.) it indicates nothing else by definition (all other meanings being dependent on the context) despite this, it feels very important. as you mentioned concepts with no easy translation are a good base for such a custom and it is great to have them, but the thing that seals the deal is using your own language for proper nouns when a translation is available (Samoa uses a nice mix of un-translated words from both categories). this behavior actually has a very paradoxical and confusing, but unclear relationship with the monarchy vs. republic debate. I did a study evaluation how many words from their own language the constitutions of various countries use and I found that, in terms of the number of un-translated words from their own language the constitution used, Ireland was second on the planet, and Samoa was third. the vast majority of the countries (but not all) that did this were republics, but the country that did it the most was, Malaysia, a monarchy. I think it was nothing more than the percentage of countries that are republics being currently higher than the percentage that are monarchies. just to be clear, there is not a single case of autochthonous nomenclature that I am not in favor of, at least compared to a constitution containing the exact same substance. as I said, I have ideas about how a Gaelic monarchy could do even more of that one custom than the Irish republic (we might even be able to top the Malaysians) good to know you are on board with this custom, servant of the chiefAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7669776494971280696.post-74115012986934161582016-04-22T15:20:17.989-07:002016-04-22T15:20:17.989-07:00Yes I would for as long as English was the common ...Yes I would for as long as English was the common language and even longer for when the trading classes retain English for the sake of international trade after Gaelige has been reconstituted as the language spoken in the street.<br /><br />I am a traditionalist but I am no enemy of innovation or new conventions particularly not one such as this which enhances rather than detracts from tradition. There is no reason a Gaelic monarchy wouldn't retain this convention especially since a Gaelic monarchy would have need of it since by its nature, it will be introducing a whole host of native things that have no applicable English word, even if it did not go so far as to reintroduce the clan system in some manner.Servant of the Chiefhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17018786429076784275noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7669776494971280696.post-73609393740506057802016-04-22T11:35:27.773-07:002016-04-22T11:35:27.773-07:00a question, I was wondering if my favorite feature...a question, I was wondering if my favorite feature of our current constitution would stay if you had your way, namely the autochthonous nomenclature. autochthonous nomenclature (I made up the word from 2 real roots as there is no concise word for this) is how the constitution gives government institutions names that are simply the Irish language word for what they are, but uses those names un-translated. (examples: Taoiseach, Tánaiste, Dáil, and Oireachtas) I feel that this aspect, even if more part of the style of the constitution than the substance of it, gives our government a local flavor. numerous other countries such as, but not limited to: India, Pakistan, Myanmar, Poland, and Malaysia do this now (not with Irish, but with their own native languages), but Ireland was the first country to do it. I hope a Gaelic monarchy would keep this one tendency of our current republican constitution. I love this one feature of our present constitution. (it does not do everything right, but the one thing I highlighted here, it does do right) I actually have some ideas as to how a restored native monarchy could not only, continue the habit of using un-translated Irish for proper nouns, but enhance this tendency. servant of the chief, would you keep the autochthonous nomenclature?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7669776494971280696.post-62221450185240474092016-04-20T11:13:24.340-07:002016-04-20T11:13:24.340-07:00the comment about the pretenders contained criteri...the comment about the pretenders contained criteria that were intended to maximize a prospective monarch's suitability for Ireland, I think that the main challenge Irish monarchists face is reestablishing the irishness of monarchy, having a first monarchy whose personal irishness is beyond reasonable doubt would probably be very helpful in that, that's the underlying thinking behind my criteriaAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7669776494971280696.post-45846024255379678522015-07-27T11:35:16.234-07:002015-07-27T11:35:16.234-07:00To answer your question he did fight Vikings or at...To answer your question he did fight Vikings or at that point, Hiberno-Norse warriors, but they were only a part of the rebellion, the majority of rebels being rebellious Irish lords and chieftains. Alot of the 'vikings' were actually just mercenaries and adventurers from a few of the Viking settlements all over Ireland and almost all at this point were Christian as well.<br /><br />As for the murder of Brian Boru, that he was at prayer or otherwise in his tent is the only agreed upon fact about his murder after the battle, and his murderers were anything from assassins or just lucky enemy warriors who were routing from the battlefield who happened upon the tent.Servant of the Chiefhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17018786429076784275noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7669776494971280696.post-76916474787430953252015-07-27T01:08:42.676-07:002015-07-27T01:08:42.676-07:00Oh, I read this now:
"Brian did what one wou...Oh, I read this now:<br /><br /><i>"Brian did what one would expect an old man to do in the situation immediately after the battle, he went and prayed, giving thanks to the Almighty for the deliver and for the repose of his noble son's soul. He had dismissed his bodygaurds to give chase to the enemy as he prayed in his tent and, well.. the rest is as they say, history."</i><br /><br />Hmm, sound a bit like Sr Eric - locally venerated in Sweden and Scandinavia, killed when going out from Holy Mass. By enemies who included or were Asatru.Hans Georg Lundahlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01055583255516264955noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7669776494971280696.post-77815851209089157932015-07-27T01:06:40.420-07:002015-07-27T01:06:40.420-07:00Excuse me, was not Brian fighting the Vikings hims...Excuse me, was not Brian fighting the Vikings himself at Clontarf on one Good Friday? Or was that another battle?Hans Georg Lundahlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01055583255516264955noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7669776494971280696.post-27433069306816861072014-02-28T14:57:54.721-08:002014-02-28T14:57:54.721-08:00it should be noted however that when it comes to c...it should be noted however that when it comes to changing the system of government of a country, there is no "good" option, only a least bad one, if the existing regime is either extremely corrupt or extremely oppressive, that may be revolution, but in most other circumstances it is legality,Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7669776494971280696.post-85415639615060471622013-04-29T03:31:08.867-07:002013-04-29T03:31:08.867-07:00Ammending the constitution would be possibly the m...Ammending the constitution would be possibly the most peaceful way of achieving a monarchy and, indeed, I believe would be what would have happened had the rightful heir of Thomond accepted Develera's offering the crown of Ireland to him. A revolution is both unneccessary and undesireable as it would make recognition of the new Irish government by other European nations harder to come by and involves far too much blood, and, dare I say it, the current republic isn't nearly tyrannical or heathenish enough to justify a monarchist revolution. And coups would, as you say, set precedents. The legalistic restoration is also the most likely restoration to occur in Ireland should it come to pass and it is keeping with continuity. The only problem is its sets the precedent that crowns and legitimacy can be written into and out of constitutions provided the support is there, which offends me on many levels and poses a looming danger in the future. If we were to restore the monarchy constitutionally we would almost certainly have to sunder an Taoiseach's monopoly on executive power and cede certain authorities to the High King, lest we end up creating a 'crowned republic'.<br /><br />Trying to appease revolutionaries is fruitless however, they will cease upont he flimsiest of pretexts to justify revolution. Even if an army of angels descended upon high to seat Ard Ri upon the throne and placed a restored staff of St.Malachy into his hands, revolutionaries would still grieve and protest. Revolutionaries care not for legitimacy except using it as a cloak for their own pox ridden bodies.Servant of the Chiefhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17018786429076784275noreply@blogger.com